Problems With James Hardie Siding Installations
August 25th, 2009 | 64 comments
James Hardie lap siding is great product, but it only performs as well as it’s installed. I’ve heard a few complaints about this product from various home buyers, mostly anecdotal evidence about how the material deteriorates, but I’ve found improper installations on every damaged section of siding I’ve ever seen. James Hardie siding is a fiber-cement product that comes with a 30 or 50 year warranty, but any warranty will be void if the product is improperly installed. Listed below are a few of the most common installation defects that I find.
Improper Clearances
- Must be kept 2″ away from roof surfaces, decks, driveways, steps, and other similar hard surfaces.
- Must be kept 6″ above the finished grade.
- Gutters must be kept 1″ away from the siding, and kickout flashing needs to be installed.
- Must be kept 1/4″ above flashing above windows, and not caulked here.
- Must be blind nailed or face nailed, but not both. The photos below show blind nails and face nails used together, and clearly shows what happens.
- The proper size nails must be used (6d or siding nails). Framing nails (16d) were used in the photos below.
- The nails must be driven in straight, and must not be over-driven or under-driven. The nails pictured were driven at an angle or driven in too far.
Blind Nailed and Face Nailed
Wrong Nails, Faced Nailed and Blind Nailed, Nailed at an angle
Overdriven Nails
Angled Nail
What Do These Defects Mean?
If you’re buying a house with improperly installed James Hardie siding, be aware that damage caused by an improper installation will not be covered by their warranty, and your siding will be subject to premature damage and deterioration. If the proper clearances haven’t been met, they can often be fixed. If the siding has been improperly attached to the house, there isn’t any practical way to fix this. You’ll have to take your chances and hope it doesn’t turn out like the photos above, or you’ll need to have the siding redone. For a full list of installation requirements for the HZ5 plank, click here.
Reuben Saltzman, Structure Tech Home Inspections – Email - Home Inspector Saint Louis Park
Hank
August 25, 2009, 1:53 pm
Being just a lay-person, this seems like an awful lot of requirements to have it installed properly.
Is this normal for other types of siding too?
Reuben Saltzman
August 25, 2009, 2:31 pm
Yes, just about any other type of siding will have similar installation requirements.
Chad
August 28, 2009, 8:45 am
Requirements are very similar to what is required for EIFS installations.
Key building fundamental to remember is you want for the building to leak and not to wick (why separation from grade, sidewalks and roofs).
Remodeling Contractors Palatine
October 23, 2009, 5:31 pm
I think that when you are remodeling you want to be around the project as much as possible!
If you can do a lot of it yourself that helps on quality and money.
Usually the best job done is the one you do because you know how you want it done and you
want it done nicely because you’ll be seeing it everyday – the contracter wont!
Thanks for this blog it had a lot of great information!
gerod
January 11, 2010, 12:46 am
Good comment on the Hardiplank installation we have done over 1000 installations in siding seattle homes it works well if you know what you are doing.
I would not recomend fiber cement siding for DIY
projects.
http://www.siding-seattle.com
siding seattle
Re-side with David Mills
February 24, 2010, 11:11 am
This is an interesting blog about James Hardie Siding written by a home inspector. The point that Reuben makes is true with most building products… they are only as good as their installation.
It is important to have your James Hardie Siding installed by a contractor that will follow the installation guidelines and has had experience installing fiber cement. Check references and past installations… and don’t rely on the James Hardie Preferred Contractor Badge as a guarantee that work will be performed correctly. It’s a political reward for contractors that install only their products in most markets.
I have installed fiber cement on over 700 homes since 2003 and I am alarmed at the number of bad fiber cement installations that I see. Installations which will not be covered by warranty when they fail. In my opinion… these two manufacturers should create an installation certification program and limit access to their products or they might become the next LP and Masonite.
Reuben Saltzman
February 24, 2010, 6:28 pm
That’s an interesting take on the “Preferred Contractor Badge.” I had no idea, but I believe you. We have a similar title in my industry, where real estate companies / offices will have “recommended home inspectors”. They’re “recommended” because they paid to be put on a list – for an example, click here http://www.edinarealty.com/vendorsearch/VendorSearchResults.aspx?Category=500007.
A certification program would be a good idea… of course homeowners like myself couldn’t buy the stuff then, but at least it would be done right. Maybe something similar to the certification required for PEX?
Thanks for reading!
joe gargagliano
March 29, 2010, 6:53 pm
Hello,
We are in the Charlotte market and are installers are well familiar with fiber cement products for over 8 years. Our crews are well trained and as in some cases with any installer there are occasional mistakes made which we remedy very quickly.
My problem is this: in my area James Hardie has a select group of installers which they like to use(usually because these installers lower the labor rates enough to justify using Color-Plus rather then primed) and James Hardie calls these installers “certified” We have gone through all of James Hardie’s training and yet they say we are not certified and will tell our own builders this, and reccomend other “certified installers”. James Hardie will not give any documentation whatsoever to us for the training that we have done and they make up the rules as they go along. Case in point, at one time you could not use any product except Hardie trim on James Hardie products or it would void the product warranty. NVR comes along and signs a deal with James Hardie and presto, vinyl corners, all with warranties!
Am I the only one who feels this way, that James Hardie plays by no rules and sees that James Hadie will stop at nothing to get a deal passed? Don’t get me wrong, James Hardie makes a good product but they are poorly trained in people skills, stretch the truth, and would throw you under the bus for a couple of dollars a square…….anyone want to try to disprove me?
Joe Gargagliano
Reuben Saltzman
March 29, 2010, 7:10 pm
Very interesting Joe. You’re not the only one that feels this way – check out the rest of the comments below. That’s too bad they do this, and that’s a crazy story about the vinyl siding corners.
old hardie guy
April 11, 2010, 11:00 pm
I’m a former JH preferred contractor (6+ yrs)- In 6 years we had ONE 1/2 day training session. The “preferred remodeler program is, at this point, just a marketing tool to ensure ColorPlus gets sold. Provided you can deal with Hardie’s Heavy Handed Politics and sell nothing but James Hardie ColorPlus they will send you a ton of leads. I got off the hardie “bandwagon” once I started seeing the 7/16 trim product totally delaminate within 2 years. This product ( discontinued in my market) was the same composition as the plank and panel product.
I too have seen plenty of poor FC installations BUT with respect to “proper installation”–Compare installation guidelines/instructions/ legacy reports (Hardie Panel) of around 2004 to the current? THEY ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT even though the product didn’t “change” until last fall.
It seems like JH is adapting their standards as they go (probably due to product failures in NORTHERN markets). There is ALOT of product out there “properly” installed under the old installation guidelines during the last 4-6 years that is staring to deliminate / crumble / mildew (Kansas, Missouri, Iowa).
My point being, as these failures arise (3-6 years later) is it fair to judge the installation based on 2009/10 provided guidlines??? Or should we look at the information provided to the installer by James Hardie at the time?? I have old installations I know I would have done differently had the “correct” information been available.
A previous poster had mentioned Masonite and LP ( I am not a fan of either) BUT I will say that in my market, I am seeing Hardie Failing Faster than those products in the same (or more preferable) applications. It makes me wonder how those products might have done IF installed under the 2010 hardie guidelines— (2 real coats of paint, 2″ rooflines, 6″ grade, sealed edges/penetrations, kickout flashings, 1/4″ off old all flashings-tapered)
Reuben Saltzman
April 12, 2010, 4:12 am
Old Hardie Guy – thank you for reading. Your comments echo what other former James Hardie installers have said – they seem to be a difficult partner to work with!
If you have any of their older installation manuals, I would be very interested in looking them over to see exactly what has changed. I don’t have any of their old manuals. Thanks!
old hardie guy
April 12, 2010, 8:35 pm
Old installation instructions (2-3 pages) I almost certainly have and will send.
“Old Installation Manuals / Old Best Practices” are a different matter as they were not distributed (if they existed at all).
It is that lack of specifics (2 Pages VS 30+)which I have an issue with as many of the premature failures homeowners are experiencing could have been avoided with more specific guidance.
Of course (before becoming so popular) a 30 page JH installation manual would have “scared off” most “would be” installers, DYI’s, and builders.
Worst Case scenario they would have sold a few less projects in the short run.
Did Hardie really not know the limitations of its product-? Or was the bar simply lowered to increase sales?
Its also noteworthy that southern markets (texas) have different guidelines than northern markets. Hardie also sold products in Texas that they would not sell (or did only for a short time) to northern markets (as these products would “catastrophically” fail in freeze/thaw climates).
The real problem states border “Hardie Zones” (think Missouri, Kansas, ect) where it gets hot, frozen, wet, and/or dry— sometimes within the same month!
A little trial and error (with other people’s $) never hurt anyone right? I’m sure these issues have all been resolved with HardieZone!
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April 19, 2010, 11:43 am
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Laurie Abelman
May 5, 2010, 10:22 am
As a private homeowner, looking to replace siding, what would you professionals recommend. I live in Colorado. I am looking at James Hardie Color Plus, and Stucco. Can’t make up my mind. Any advice, or other product thoughts?
Reuben Saltzman
May 5, 2010, 11:32 am
Personally, I’d go with a cement siding product. It holds up well, and I think it looks great.
old hardie guy
May 9, 2010, 7:55 pm
Laurie-
If your looking at James Hardie Color Plus (lap?) Make sure you are comfortable with the appearance of the lap seams (but joints)-
I have sent Reuben pics (he can forward or post)-
The main issue being you cannot caulk the seams (the caulking does not match).
Also- you might check what hardie zone product is sold in your market- Hardie made changes to their product fall 2009. These changes are marketed as HARDIEZONE (essentially different My market has James Hardie HZ5 which
old hardie guy
May 9, 2010, 8:07 pm
My market has Hardie HZ5 which has a sharp tapered edge at the bottom of the lap- This edge is extremley fragile (unlike the “old” squared edge). It has only been out for 6-7 months and we are already hearing complaints at “traffic areas” such as decks, entries, and flower beds. The edge on the new HZ5 product is so fragile you can chip the product with your finger nail.
If you are considering the HardiePanel- I would stay away from the prefinished panel UNLESS you will be using their battens every 16″ to cover the nail heads as the touchups at the nail heads will be an eyesore.
You might consider comparing Certainteeds Fibercement product (primed and then field painted?). They do not have the sharp tapered edge on the lap siding, and carry a 50 year warranty on their siding AND TRIM vs Hardie 30 year siding 10 year trim.
I am also a big fan of Traditional Stucco (Properly Applied!*) I would stay away from “acrylic stucco”, EIFs, Dryvit, ect.
Erin Minder
June 18, 2010, 8:08 am
I heard the Hardie siding was fire proof, woodpecker proof and termite proof, also Hail proof, by what I am reading I am wondering how it can be hail proof if it is so fragile, would you say it was better than Vinyl?
Reuben Saltzman
June 18, 2010, 10:28 am
Erin – it’s really just a tapered edge that ends up getting chipped. These chips don’t compromise the performance of the product, they’re just cosmetic. In my humble opinion, James Hardie siding is superior to vinyl siding in almost every aspect.
Susan
June 29, 2010, 9:39 am
I have Hardi siding and trim on my home. Installed in about 2004, pre-primed and coated with first coat of the recommended surface cover. Second coat applied as instructed. Took only a couple of years for the trim to begin to peel apart. Hardi sent a guy out that said it was due to surface contact. I have trim that in only in contact with other hardi product that is peeling apart and trim on roof lines that is not falling apart. The theory seems incorrect. The offered me a settlement that does not begin to cover the cost of getting this junk off my home and replaced. Any suggestions on how to get a fair settlement and what product to us to replace the trim would be appreciated. Thanks!
Mark
August 17, 2010, 4:20 pm
Considering installing Hardie siding, but sales rep for installation company cautioned me that Hardie will require repainting every 7 years. He said the Hardie looks pretty bad after that timeframe. Can anyone confirm this?
Seems to be a major drawback, potentially offsetting the benefits Hardie has to offer.
2001 install instructions- HELP !
August 19, 2010, 5:56 pm
My comment is to “old hardi guy” Do you have 2001 installation instructions ? we have a libility claim from a multi familly project we did 10 years ago. I have been scouring the internet trying to get a copy. Please respond if you have them.
Thanks, Scott
Reuben Saltzman
August 19, 2010, 6:15 pm
He did, and he sent them to me. I’ll send them to you.
Paul
September 2, 2010, 7:29 pm
Reuben, I’m also looking for installation instructions from the 2001 to 2004 time frame. If you have them I’d appreciate it if you could send me any install manuals for Hardie siding during that period.
Thanks in advance. Paul
Reuben Saltzman
September 3, 2010, 3:58 am
Hi Paul, I just sent you an email with the instructions attached. For anyone else interested in the older instructions, I’ve posted them online. You can access them at http://www.structuretech1.com/James-Hardie-2001-Instructions.pdf
NS-Boo
September 3, 2010, 8:49 am
RE: Old Hardie Guy-
Would very much like the Hardie Install PDF’s showing the inconsistencies in installation instructions, especially those for Aug 2004 and later.
Thx,
NS-Boo
Tom Tamlyn
September 9, 2010, 8:28 am
Very interesting blog. Without being too commercial, Tamlyn makes recommended trim for James Hardie (flashing, corners, etc) in all the ColorPlus options. We have worked closely with James Hardie since 1995. We look forward to hearing comments good and bad on our products and how we can improve to make the overall jobs longer lasting and aesthetically attractive.
DeDe Wylie
September 16, 2010, 6:08 pm
I just got the Hardie bomb dropped on me. our house is covered with efflorescence that they claim is a “storage” problem not a finish problem. We have Color Plus prefinished on our house. the insist that this is an exclusion but if you read the exclusions, it is ambiguously worded. I have a feeling we are in for a fight. They say contact installer and the installer, if they didn’t let it get WET will have to fight it out with the supplier. that is ridiculous. Does anyone else have efflorescence issues or can shed light?
thanks
and if wetness causes this, then should this product be outside in the RAIN? Duh!
Reuben Saltzman
September 16, 2010, 7:11 pm
DeDe – do you have any photos to share?
Granny Lin
September 22, 2010, 8:02 pm
I live in NE Kansas where it’s humid & moistureis always a problem. My place has some of the old …don’t know what it’s call …looks like pressed wood that I understand the manufacture actually rebated back $$ on. I’m not original owner so never knew anything about the lawsuit. I must re-side with something…I was all sold on Hardie prefinished but now I’m having second thoughts. Is this a good product for this area? Neighbors around the corner had something called “Smart Siding” put on & said it was like Hardie board only more reasonable in price. Any comments, guidance or suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks.
Reuben Saltzman
September 23, 2010, 5:19 pm
I’m still a fan of James Hardie siding.
big k
September 28, 2010, 10:02 pm
On the post about home inspectors paying to be on Edina Realtys preferred list— it is sooooo true!
I got suckered into using Inspecta-Homes inspection service and that guy did not know his head from a hole in the ground! He just skipped over things he should have inspected and then wrote up many things and when i brought them to the attention of the city building inspector, He laugh and said that nothing was really incorrect about the items and felt bad for me that i was suckered into using Inspecta-Home!
The inspector from Inspecta- Home never checked my furnance, said i didnt have a garbage disposal( shoulda made him stick his hand in the little round hole in the right side of the sink while i flipped the switch) and never even checked the foundation. He did write up i had some scratches on my window sill(from the darn cat) the overflow pipe off the T&P valve on the water heater which is copper,should have been galvanized pipe????, etc.. Im in St. Paul and these guys are Morons, same category as the Edina Realtors i HAD from the Woodbury Office. Watch out for Edina Realty Co. They are not to be trusted, period….
big 1
September 28, 2010, 10:06 pm
I am building a new house and has anyone heard of Hardie siding retaining moisture on the back side and making the paint blister and peel off in 4-6 years?
Al Rippman
October 25, 2010, 7:29 pm
RE: Old Hardi Guy or Reuben,
Looking for copies of install guides from 2002/2003 to make sure our contractor installed it correctly.
Thank You,
Al
Reuben Saltzman
October 25, 2010, 8:14 pm
Hi Al, I’m quite certain that the 2001 installation instructions would still apply; they don’t change the installation manual every year.
zacklineman
November 8, 2010, 6:33 pm
I wanted to thank everyone for the insight regarding James Hardie fiber cement siding. I was leaning in that direction because I think it looks much better than vinyl siding, but now I have decided to steer clear of it. Good info, thanks again!
Another Old Sider
November 25, 2010, 12:28 pm
I have 35 years of construction experience with the majority of it spent in exterior finishing. I recently became a desk jockey, but my heart is still outdoors.
Interesting blog. I just want to say that if we combine the best of the old ways with the new, we may come up with winning combinations.
For example, using a polymer web behind a James Hardie installation in a damper climate might be the best way to avoid the wicking and the moisture related delaminating. This is a similar method to using firring strips, only there is equalised support all the way along the sding panels. We have done this on a number of Hardie jobs to great effect. As Old Hardie Guy pointed out, using the updated techniques and common sense should give an adequate, durable installation – if you add the air flow behind the siding (as has been done for decades with wood siding products) you should get superior performance from the siding.
The issue of the trim is an ongoing one. I NEVER recommend the use of Cementinous trim on a building for the reasons pointed out by others – it delaminates fairly quickly and starts to disintegrate. In every instance where I had any influence in the final decision as to a trim for cementinous siding application, the choice I put forward is between Smart Trim (a wood composite trim with a rough grain finish) and natural wood (spruce or cedar). I prefer the Smart Trim beacause 1) it can be pre-finished in colours to match/compliment James Hardie colours, and 2) it does not shrink, expand, twist, or bow and will maintain it’s structural appearance for a long time.
I am currently in the process of replacing the siding on my own home, and I am installing a pre-finished cementinous siding with Smart trim corners and accents (belly band, gable bands, and window trim). My wife loves it, and I know that I won’t need to worry about the exterior finish as an old guy trying to climb up a ladder.
Someone asked about Smart Siding. I personally prefer the cementinous siding (James Hardie, or Certainteed) with the Smart trim as above. The cost is not much different in most markets – actually in mine, the cementinous is cheapewr than either Cedar or Smart siding. The performance of the product is comparable, they do look a bit different from each other, and I believe you should choose the one which visibly appeals most to you.
jim
January 1, 2011, 11:24 am
We recently installed 7.25 “, 6″ reveal smooth Hardie lap siding on an old house. Our installers told us that the 6″ reveal Hardie siding took about 25 percent more time to install than 5.5 ” or less reveal. Does that make sense to anybody out there please ? Any information will be much appreciated. And—we are not fighting with the installers.
Hardie Guy
January 16, 2011, 7:02 am
It doesnt make sense at all. The smaller reveal has more peices per 100 sq. ft. so it would technically take a bit longer to install. That being said 25% longer is rediculous even if you were installing 4″ reveal. The length of time is minimal between sizes.
Fiber Cement Installer
January 20, 2011, 6:17 am
This blog continues to be the best site on the web about James Hardie.
I was recently approached by the Hardie guys about becoming a Preferred Installer. They wanted me to commit to using only their product (stop using CertainTeed Weatherboard) and to move 70% of my business (90-100 homes a year) to JH prefinished. In exchange for this I would receive a Preferred Contractor Badge and get listed on their website. The question I have is… how do you continue to grow your business in a very competitive marketplace by selling a higher priced final product that consumers don’t necessarily want to buy?
The number of prefinished jobs completed in our market is very small when compared to primed. This is due to my markets professional installers belief that the primed product is actually better. Product handling prior to installation on the wall will always be an issue… even with the big distributors.
Prefinished siding isn’t about having a better product in the marketplace. Prefinished siding is about additional profit from a line extension. Sales were down 11% from 2009 to 2010, but EBIT margin increased 3.8% during this same time period because of the higher margins in prefinished siding.
Siding Repair Guy
February 3, 2011, 7:52 am
I have been repairing or fixing James Hardie Siding for many years and I would not recommend this product to anyone.
old hardie guy
February 13, 2011, 6:21 pm
RE: Preferred Installer
“Fiber Cement Installer”
I feel your pain- Our business does a similar volume of fiber cement (and has for a long time)- Hardie will feed you leads IF you ONLY push color plus.
As a “Preferred Installer” Some prospective clients will in fact believe you to be an authority on the product. In our market some of the “preferred installers” even take it a step further to say that Hardie will “inspect all their work” or worse yet infer non- preferred installers are not “gauranteed”-
The reality is that none of the above is true.
As business you have to decide if the “free leads” are worth the sacrifice. As indicated in my previous post- I believe the HZ5 tapered edge to be a real problem on the lap siding. I do agree with Rueben in that the chipped edges are aesthetic BUT most potential fiber cement clients select this product for its superior aesthetics and durability. Edges which easily chip defeat the purpose….
I hope Hardie fixes that issue—?
But in the mean time, Hardie can keep its leads.
I will continue to give my clients honest product recommendations based on their needs (And let word of mouth/ referrals / reputation take care of the rest).
I would not drop Certainteed for Hardie if I were you. I think you will continue to see the market shift towards Certainteed unless JH really starts taking care of its customers (both primed and Colorplus).
Tom Morgan
February 14, 2011, 7:56 pm
Had Hardie installed when house was built in spring, 2000. Garage door trim was immediately replaced as it had been recently announced by Hardie that there were moisture retainage issues where Hardie came in contact with the ground, such as a driveway. Three years later, siding over deck replaced. Now, fascia (25 feet off the ground) is severely crumbling. Anyone heard of this? I’ve read the comments, and instructions, and have heard of my other two issues, but not this one. Shingles overhang properly. I’d appreciate thoughts anyone has. I’m in the process of submitting a warranty claim with a request that the prorated stipulation be waived.
Siding Repair Guy
February 15, 2011, 7:15 am
Hi Tom,
Yes I work on homes like your all the time and I do not believe this a good product due to the problems your having, this is very common for hardie to fall apart and crumble.
Stephen Hill
March 16, 2011, 4:01 pm
Great blog. I am an architect and have done numerous multi-family projects with Hardieplank siding. I did one in 2004. Can anyone email me a copy of the Hardieplank installation instructions that were in force at that time. I would really appreciate it.
Siding Distributor
April 13, 2011, 5:34 pm
Rueben,
The chipped edge is a problem and leads to paint failure do to moisture wicking.
This is why hardie is changing their board yet agian to another design. I thinke we are now moving to the 8th generation in the past 10 years.
As for the install instructions they really do change every year.
Gayle
April 18, 2011, 3:10 pm
I saw this blog and appreciated all the insight into the product. I wonder if anyone can provide us some information on Hardie Panels. We live in WA state and are looking at residing using the panels — not planks. We have been told about the trim issues and will be using another option. But we have also been informed once the siding is up, we can not put any external decorations on the home using nails or screws because it will void the panel warranty. I currently have large metal artwork on two sides of my home and want to put it back up so am concerned about this issue. Would it be ok to use screws or nails if caulked to prevent any moisture from getting into the fiber materials of the panel? Any info on the panel product would be most appreciated. Thank you.
Siding Repair Guy
April 20, 2011, 7:45 am
Hi Gayle,
The company (james hardie) does not want anything touching their product and they will not stand behind their own product if any fasteners petrude through their product, so you will be doing this at your own risk. They will also tell you that the metal artwork will trap water and would not recommend putting it up.
CC
June 4, 2011, 5:11 am
I am currently have James Hardie siding put on my home . The siding seems good. Using a “preferred” installer and basically think the company stuck me the a lemon installer . Had my 1st inspection yesterday and said he didnt do anything critical to warranty but needs to fix some other stuff . I couldnt be at meeting because my son was having surgery .
I think this installer is not using Hardie best practices or even good ones. yet HARDIE doesnt seem to care even though they recommended him!
Siding Repair Guy
June 6, 2011, 6:05 am
You may want to hire a independent inspector to check over the job
CC
June 14, 2011, 2:20 pm
Can you tell me where to fins and independent inspector ? When the hardie inspectors came out they said the work was sloppy. They agreed they wouldnt want these guys to do their house . At first they said they would throw them off job and even brought another contractor to my house and said these guys would do a great job.. isnt that nice! . But now tell me I have to work it out with these bad installers since I have a contract . I really dont know what to do . This is just awful. Hardie woudnt want them so now hwo do I get money back and get the new crew? I am so mixed up ! please help and thanks
Reuben Saltzman
June 14, 2011, 3:09 pm
For an independent home inspector, go to http://www.ashi.org.
CC
June 18, 2011, 8:55 am
Just an update.. regional manager of hardie is still trying to get Old contractor to leave / and get new contractor in to remove what he has done so far which isnt much ( but all not right) and have new contractor take over job .. I also have contacted an inspector from site you gave me to do a report to protect myself as well incase this ends up in court .. will let you know.. thanks again
I Love your advice on all and find your other information all great as well .. we changed joists last year under deck and did use joist screws .. the only ones you say can replace nails .. I was happy to see we did it right!
You are helping people ..wish you were on Long Island ..lol.. !
Reuben Saltzman
June 18, 2011, 12:58 pm
CC – thanks for the update.
JT
July 3, 2011, 12:07 am
We live in NE Kansas and are currently in the middle of a JH Colorplus lap siding project with Greenguard Raindrop house wrap and Sturdi Mount’s for the spigots, lights, and faucets. The contractor we’re using is listed on the JH website as a “preferred contractor”.
The project got off to a slow start due to an issue with part of the product order not being available on the day we were supposed to begin, as well as a few days the crew which is supposed to work on our job has been finishing up another job, but other than that we’re in full swing. It has been a little irritating since I’ve called the local JH rep a few times requesting he come to our site to inspect as JH states they’ll do, however after two voice mails I’ve yet to receive a call back. After mentioning to our contractor that I had contacted the local JH rep requesting he could look over the installation, the contractor (who knows the local JH rep as I’m sure most who are on the JH web site listed as a JH “preferred contractor” do) told me a couple of days later he spoke to the local JH rep and has it set up for him to show up on site sometime before the project is complete. I thought it a little strange that the local JH rep has not returned my two voice mails I left for him yet he’s now available to view the project after the contractor doing our job got a hold of him. Again, just a little frustrating.
There are a few things I wanted to make sure with the local JH rep so the warranty would not be void, such as the use of carboard strips installed over the house wrap and under the lap siding in a few areas to have all the lap lay flat, and in several lap pieces securing the bottom of loose lap pieces with small nails. Just wanted to make sure we’re not spending all this money only to find out JH will not warranty their product later should be have any issues.
JT
July 11, 2011, 8:05 pm
Okay, siding is completed, other than caulking and painting. I noticed when the lap was being put up the installers used strips of cardboard (cut with a box knife off of a cardboard box) attached vertically over the house wrap and under the siding. I asked why this was being done and why they were using strips of cardboard. I was told they had to shim some areas to make sure the lap lays flat and there are no waves when looking down the wall. Makes sense to me, but why the cardboard? I asked if that was okay thinking if it was to get wet it would just deteriorate. I was told it’s okay. I asked the contractor who said he talked to the local JH rep, who also said it was okay, however I called JH myself and talked to their tech department. They told me the use of shims is fine however not shims made of cardboard.
Has anyone heard of this before? Any thoughts here?
Siding Repair Guy
July 12, 2011, 6:33 am
JT, This is common practice to use shims made of cardboard on all types of siding, you should feel good that they used shims because some installers don’t bother putting them in.
jimmy mac
July 14, 2011, 7:55 pm
I am a architectural designer/inspector on the east coast of Canada and was one of the first to design/spec the product in the area. Like any new technology it is a balance of wanting a promising new product to advance but not wanting be one of the first generations to use it. Products improve with use, feed back and re-engineering. I think Hardi has changed it’s product/ installation instructions accordingly and in some case’s still not enough.
Keep your original dated installation specifications staple them to the warranty. When purchasing the product ask If there is a JH inspector “inspecting” your installation. Let them know you want a written site inspection report included on your final installation as a requirement before signing the deal. This is not an attack on the product or the company and applies to any material warranty that is being inspected. Many companies offer this take advantage just have something in hand that stand up in court. Make sure the preferred contractor knows you want the signed documents in hand prior to you making final payment for the installation. If they have a separate contract form have them include it in the agreement. They will make sure it is inspected and will no doubt take better care of your installation.
Rain screen principles must be applied in any siding and it should never touch the sheathing membrane (house wrap). You want the venting and pressure equalization and let gravity deal with leaks. All siding leaks or should be thought to. Use proper dammed flashing at opening heads or trim caps, changes in direction at gables etc should have a formed drip and be lapped by the sheathing membrane . I would never spec or use the corner trims again I find solid poly works fine or good old primed all sides and ends wood.
I am currently building a garage project for myself and can experiment. I am using Hardi siding above, at and below grade. Below grade I am trying a high end penetrating encapsulation process. I will let you know how it goes more importantly I will let JH. At areas around entry’s and o/d doors where you can’t keep grade down I have installed a ceder clapboard, it will take the abuse and stained to match can’t be seen. All cladding needs maintenance and I recommend re-staining within the first 2 years of installation and it last many more before needing to be done again.
Safety has not been mentioned on this blog and should. Cement cladding usually contains silica and can cause http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis It should not be cut with power tools but one can’t score and break it in any fashion that is suitable to my taste. I cut mine with a hand saw holding my breath outside on a windy day. Installers be concerned of long term exposure in confine areas using power tools. It is an inert product otherwise so should not be a problem to home owners but then again we heard that of asbestos and urea formaldehyde.
Reuben Saltzman
July 15, 2011, 4:05 am
Jimmy – thanks for the comments. I’m interested to hear what happens with your garage experiment.
You’re completely right about the safety issues when cutting this product, but I didn’t mention it in my list of installation defects because, well, it doesn’t belong. If you’re going to cut the product, the best way is to use a respirator. Maybe I’m being a little overly cautious, but with the amount of warning labels that James Hardie puts on their products about cutting, I won’t cut the stuff without a respirator, windy day or not.
Concerned Parent
August 5, 2011, 6:11 am
I have heard the dust from JH material is dangerous for your health, so my question is,
Why put this on your home where you raise your children, it’s like having asbestos siding on your home!
Reuben Saltzman
August 7, 2011, 6:51 am
Concerned Parent – many people have asbestos siding on their homes, and this doesn’t pose any type of risk to the occupants. The fibers from either types of siding won’t be released unless the siding is sanded or cut using a power tool.
Hinda Rosenberg
October 21, 2011, 9:47 pm
To CC – post dated 6/18/11
Could you give the name of the new contractor if you are satisfied with his work? I live on Long Island and am thinking of residing with Hardie. Thanks
Stacy Maliszewski
January 18, 2012, 2:03 pm
I am looking for the 2003 and 2001 Installation Instructions…can I get those sent to me that Old Hardie Guy had? That would be much appreciated!
Reuben Saltzman
January 18, 2012, 3:47 pm
@Stacy – I don’t have copies of the 2003 installation instructions, but I do have 2001. I just posted them online, you can download them here – http://www.structuretech1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/James-Hardie-2001-Instructions.pdf